The Boy Crisis: Dr. Warren Farrell's Work on What's Wrong with Our Boys

Carolina Focus
Wednesday, March 21st

Dr. Warren Farrell and The Boy Crisis looks at the social impact of how boys are being raised, its effect on the family, education and healthcare. Charlotte-Mecklenburg are the most racially segregated schools in NC. Matt Ellinwood with the North Carolina Justice Center Education and Law Project explains. President Trump's tariffs will impact local small business, PatBrennan, owner of Rivermen Brewing tells how it will impact his small business.


Transcript - Not for consumer use. Robot overlords only. Will not be accurate.

I'm mark Thomas and this is Carolina focus of news talk 1110993. WP BT 1079 win. 1025610. W offends me. It's where we look at issues events that happened that affect the Carolinas the Charlotte region can you. Welcome. And we're gonna continue our discussion today as we have over the past several weeks because so many things are in the news relating to school shootings. And maladies in society. Journal right now is going to be joining us wrote a book a number of years ago called the myth of male power. It's doctor warned Ferrell in fact I interviewed him probably he was in 1994. And to talk about that India did expose and took a little bit different tact on the I guess the the male dominated culture that weird to this day being told we live in. And he's written another book along with doctor John Gray who is the author of men are from Mars and women are from Venus. And collaborative leave they put together a book called the boy crisis. And where wanna find out what this is all about because these are two people who really have a lot of impact. Back in the ninety's with their writings. And wanna see how things have changed or maybe how they not have not changed and joining us now is doctor warned Ferrell. Hum good morning doctor Furl. Important. But they once been but twenty some years how you've been. A yes it was we were who we were barely out of diapers at that we're in tide. Of but I found that I've found that book interesting now to to give listeners who may not be familiar with you. A little bit of background. You have your your degrees are in political science. And you were with the national organization for women way back in the in the eighties wasn't it. Good luck in the seventies atlas with fear and on the board director to the national organization for women in New York City and speaking pretty much around the world and the importance that women's movement and and then in the seventies neatly trim and you can certainly see a lot of divorces occur. And the when I was in the border now the now is getting a great many. We crushed from from women who work now members saying we we don't want equality we want to. The that we want to the end charges being we know what's best for children. When we divorce political office started life I don't like my husband we don't get along well. I'm I have a new boyfriend leave one of the letter states where my. Where might out future as well we're going to be a much better life for four. My son and daughter and so on and you know it inclined to and so now the big debate. And I took the front of the debate that we shouldn't be talking about whether it should be Brothers writer obviously we should be talking about. Looking at your resurgence what history children after divorce. And they were saying we can't afford to lose membership and alienate membership. Because we have we have larger. Effort that we have to tune in to in terms of helping women so we have to support women and more. General. And the general away quickly cannot be. Preoccupied with them. It was that we get distracted and undermine our female audience. We're. Live. Having out focused. On what I've been having actually children are suitable. So you've really been. At the forefront. Of the the feminist movement. From almost its inception I mean we can go back to you know carry nations and women's suffrage in that sort of thing in where women were. You know evolving into the political sphere. But. As far as the twentieth century's concern you know the late sixties and then into the seventies was what is really it really got a toehold and really started to make inroads. So you've been you've been there since that beginning. Yes I wish I started my involvement with you know it on the board objective for now in. And 991970. And over the over the ensuing years and then it was in the ninety's that she wrote the myth of male myth of male power. Which really kind of took a lot of social attitudes and turn them on their heads. The case it was basically. And every. What what I had been learning absorbing in teaching English golf. As part of the woman's movement would fit in that we either didn't feature oracle world in which mandate new rules that could and it's expensive equipment. I'm gonna have really started to question and the life that we did not live in the world that was dominated by a teacher cheaply. They can the world it was dominated by the need to survive. And and in order to survive those of both her Brothers risk their lives in childbirth and her father for their allies in the war. To support to children of women bore and that is what they sacrificed their career. And the father's sacrifice may track type in your career. And what we were catching on to with a little movement is that we were clear which country your potential. Which sacrificing increased to reach children. Put. And a little strange it was a situation with an expectation. Actually my expectation was on net in Chico I didn't do very loudly and often re lucky it did not mean having fulfilling Cha. Actually started asking people in my audience. You know like created vehicle into your debt. And almost solely through something like writing or speaking we're doing poetry are doing our. Or no work fishing port going out playing golf for baking something in the garage. And or playing with my children my grandchildren and it was a look younger. You know being an accountant being engineered. Working the fire fighter picking up the truck driving it actually ended in the city. While fours 6070 hour week I'm getting up at 3 in the morning to be it garbage collector who think emerging market accretive to collegiate. And shall I certain to redefine power mention how virtually control over your life it is not a burden should climb a ladder. To get the top. Working efficiently Arab League picture. I'm junior camp charging war actually you know. And then didn't and it could be a liver cash initial internally what motivates you turned me on. And shall we realize that women had a lot to learn to call in our actually obligated to earn money that somebody else spent wildly dies sooner. And that was not a very good definition of power by a loot into question the whole that whole concept. And then like certitude look at and it was led to the border crisis booklet. You're actually seeing that would bully having entrance of purposefully mentioned. High level for depression and they weren't doing well at school and girls were and I wonder just what was causing it. Control and started looking all around the world and filmed at in the 63. Largest. Developed nations looking up to its upward developed. Probable it would not doing as well as girls. And cool. Or academic subjects. And then country prosecute further details were not doing well drilled in terms of their social skills he emotional intelligence. They weren't data if there are always getting weaker they're like chickens were getting lower. They were doing were academically that you area it was predicts success which is reading it writing. And comes and goes and as a little boy still become successful if they aren't getting extra data graduate from high school as a twenty. It's twenty attention likely that they will not get I'll be employed. And girls are very few women earned our interest in Mary and me and treating the boy crisis in the immediate employment. What indeed via the unemployment line does is is a bit of a hindrance when it comes to marital issues. Yet yet gotten short height you know pretty much suitable. And show notable in school or shall I started asking the question what are what's the common denominator among developed country. Illustrated to keep established it will the that was commissioned for deport. I could mission critical or. Litsch who usually. 22 things happened to divorce deal which about it heard a parent. Of the stoppage remained completely and Paul pictured there be a typical custody about (%expletive) you should seek. Bullet solution for at least we're doing fairly well and secure the circumstances that had it. Natural than to do well that they at least weren't in disaster vote. But the political it has very minimal or little contact with their father after north privileged. And I ensure that the boys were doing really terribly. Shouldn't a typical non divorced population among the league and you and found that there were 53 Christian. Other American women who were under thirty who have children. Had children without being merry. And that usually eaten the ones that we're looking with a partner that the tightening up the children. Forty appreciate that you couldn't group. Did not achieve their children after the in the children which are your dictate certain topic did not. And show and that group global it was also doing terribly well and so I started achieved a couple of croatians had. About ten different areas of cautious. But the most important shingle and other causes was a lack of father involvement. And we're speaking with doctor Warren Farrell who's the co author of the boy crisis along with doctor John Gray who wrote men are from Mars and women are from Venus. But you mention the education component him the the failure of boy is in young men in that system. Is. Correct me if I'm wrong but the school system generally is a female dominated. Area of life is it not. Yeah actually in the real problem that I mean obviously Tripoli were in trouble models that's a problem that pretty much common sense. But what is happening in New York City in particular. Is so politically from female dominated the whole truth can not dominated schools. And then we ask the you know it's pretty common and choose not be surprised at the Asia. You know 1213 fourteen he has no significant role models for the constructive. That any gang leader and isn't a destructive male role model for the offer and offensive identity. Some sense of group aware that it be in group involvement and don't be shocked in Tibet because she has defeated weren't born in China and. This whole not knowing who yeah. And get their chief major problems. With with the lack of popular content from boy. Where will it effect in the old days. Foolish and its purpose was very clear QB that you that you're rich is basically in order to between me and retreating to be disposable. It's the a couple of war or disposable in the workplace but working me aren't you you need to to support your family. And true you may not be disposable work and the people who are. I'm at the height of their careers are the most likely to have health problem that will likely to drop him. A man Anthony. It compared up and compared to men who make less money. There they are less well they're less likely to tie it at an etiquette in Asia courier productivity. You have. Yeah and being disposable work and disposable a war and war. In the old days that we shouldn't be given. So born different to prepare for that was trio that they absorb from culture in general. But you know which you report having to go to war and we're also cheering for equitable humble about it is good by the way. But what brought about into boring don't have an automatic transfer market. Sure you combine that lack of and triple or the Atlantic prepared. Which will lead role model or biological clock or to shake. Here is we're here you are sweetheart as a human being. And you thought you weren't required. You'd be able to support yourself and support definitely. And think you have to you have to work Q for the future. You have to do some combination. I hope we shall be discovered. And find out what you unique qualities are. And saint at least ought to take responsibility. Nolan giants are not involved normally speaking. I'm here in. Shouldn't being electable model operable again there there is also contribute four. There to be a lack of. Gallantry in fortunate surely look at divorced mom divorced dad. The divorce law look into shape individual mom gavel but actually the same thing about second boundaries are afraid you can't hear I couldn't see that your piece. I'm by the end. With C equitable way or the girl will expose the mother and the other equally trying to achieve peace is possible before they get there. I'm that the library will actually achieved it wanted it and you. A big fight with life shuttered order got a few key people attend saying you were overwhelmed. And shows even the good to order a different. Gets to be able straight Obama a couple of people that page treatment model triple a. For more peace advocate by street and for the child with a blonde is more likely to get her sensitivity. Should be able to manipulate a better deal. Which suggests that the child killer look pitched in China that there actually a child from church work. Excuse me yeah with the dealers and look at what the deal and she couldn't hear should be. And thicker screen or not contribute but not underage people. And for the child contingent on the lot it's being happy with that judgment be. And I both we need more likely to say troop surge in you can continue longing and I think public consumer later. Eventually their child with a dad with a belt enforcement. It's more like contribute life. What it has questioned Leonard had to postpone gratification. To finish the PC fort add it to entry gratification of the extreme. And got pushed the situation in the single most important ingredient. Should be coming successful in school tradition or work. Postal postpone gratification wasn't too lenient here. It repeated European TV. And so and where when the ball doesn't have to postpone gratification or girls and girls and much more likely to happen. People to the bully is likely to become. Could feel bad about it shelf actually under the you know achieved. It can't entry that because you basketball football player. He didn't have the discipline to really make that happened and show he's charged killing fear accountable it around and curled around him. It's more likely be people he he will likely be have a social conscious move into depression. Then we torture didn't gain and wouldn't become 1213 fourteen. And girls aren't interest in infrastructure and increasing. He'd he'd extra contractual energy and intensity to the poor and and that they have increased its sister took me only what is more taking. And then when I'm gonna have a real relationship with the girl. He becomes. He can't handle two to one other country girl in the real human beings because he's so used to the court and he gets more into depression and sometimes. Can become suicidal. And the worst case scenario he takes a look at C. Yeah its cool and it's angry if teachers and that the girls and predictable and and become like you know it archers are adamant turtle and root for the current. Well look cool very. Cool collection areas for sure what I'm talking about. And we're talking with doctor Warren Farrell who's a co author of the newly released book the boy crisis about that book and the entire I guess the the mail paradigm in society today. Now to back up just the second you talked about. The father disciplining and setting on the on the ground rules and saying if you don't each appease your packet and ice cream and if he continue to whine you're not get many tomorrow either. Oh yeah that's that's sounds like that could be categorized as toxic masculinity. Well yes the issue there's a lot of toxicity and masculinity. However their electricity. Changed as a result country mean art fund to become a little. So heroic masculinity heroic intelligence. Is training for a short like should be willing to be disposable. I'm chew and so children when they're going to have to talk it's killing me don't turn you shouldn't here and feelings. On the other hand and and so her little intelligent. You expect the opposite of how intelligence. How will look at conscience is socialization force short life. How intelligent socialization for a long life. Chu will be called toxic masculinity. Or to outcome. A little intelligence. In which are and in which we were in there to sort of make virtual machine stronger. That we actually where all we disconnected from Portland. Because we knew we wouldn't be like Laura constructed we didn't. For the bullet Welker didn't realize that thing. You know who's kidding who who with the cheerleaders cheering for its its first control do it again and in Frankfurt content and they'll do it again like it concussion or friction and concussion can be careful. The cheerleader in person can do it again and suitable or risking concussions which connection there back. Risking dislocated. And body parts and so it is and shall we because then we call option because the guy. Aren't in touch with their people and because it that you got a little problem in a battle against the but he became this year. Not the guys who shares Chia wanna be I wanna be well in central and warm and open and loving. I'm girls four girls wore all those in trouble that they have to be should go to church and then they want should submit to cry. Arctic ale one part that they're not contraction in the public market. And I think the story bears that hope certainly. Of not as far as you we we talk about the education aspect of it as well and you mentioned your high school football in this sort of thing. But the other component in the education which kind of dovetails in with the health aspect of it and emotional problems is. Attention hyperactivity disorder ADHD. And so on. What how how is that impacting. As far as like attention deficit disorder in. Education and young boys being diagnosed as hyperactive. Absolutely and that could cut a great deal because of personal and in. Almost old boy has worn blue duration hyperactivity. It is in my mother called marker triple agent shouldn't get. Country notes. I would never write notes and regurgitate doesn't accept. Current that it should not for extra learning wouldn't Wear orange color. Is getting up in doing things. And acting out in a classroom like you puke when late strategic high school. Hey can I and all look like students. Do role playing it was too little political science and so. Not have been there for the beat Democrats will be Republicans and you know as different conventions and then and then they would switch around and do the opposite role. Whatever it whatever I could do it involves that everybody's physically. And I didn't even know that the time. But accountable and you don't teach the future when I was strategic a strategic teaching guys are doing teacher training. The teachers that remind entry teachers which aren't all double double into doing much better than than they have in the past they were interested in. From the board already falling behind this since you know decades ago. Until. Could begin to see how important it was that bully. Actually. Are oriented toward doing so we don't go in our schools and we've become to a Lee who resent. And we because it will litany vocational. Education. And we kind of in the country were vocational education he exploded the schools aren't as an opportunity Tripoli. Who are not. Who are more ADHD oriented and more should be skeptical about the bench a little. The thing that Japan had little trouble accretion of all of the students. According male R&R. And vocational education programs and more the significant percentage of female power as well. And among those who were in the vocational education track for the veteran corporations. 99 point 6%. Get jobs after they graduate. As opposed to bring legal. Will we have police Tropicana school because they they're. ADHD not world channeled into functional activities. Here as I mentioned before here unemployment rate 20%. So and and economic label it's such he's got attracted to girls wouldn't. It all should not attracted to insult me each and since it's. Caught the look and lack of pride in him. And that's part of like. What goes. What creates an accident downward spiral for in a note connect all of that tool we're talking about the ice cream in the piece a few minutes ago. To focus on finishing piece. In for a lot more likely to be eighty HT that if she happened to drop the muscles. To focus on completing its keys before he gets to try to treat. So we know a little bit when province of the dominant parent. The children only half as likely to add ADHD. And Lyndon and what was the dominant player. Because that it will lead to government period as we're likely to respond shut typically choose the police corporal. Desire to have the ice cream before sheer heat conditions for peace. And therefore did not give that child Accenture and it looked developed a lot shall. Of focusing on what you're he needs to do before they get what they want with what they want to have the extra. And we're speaking with doctor warned Ferrell who is the author of the myth of male power back in the ninety's. And he's coauthor of the new book the boy crisis along with doctor John Gray who wrote the book men are from Mars and women are from Venus. Two. Very its outstanding works back in the ninety's. They've collaborated on the boy crisis we're talking to him now on Caroline focus on your host mark Thomas. Mrs. I guess it that you say there's a lot of pieces and there's a lot of dots to be connected in all this damn I guess the biggest question is how can we advance what. There's and there's probably no one thing to do to correct this problem. As such now some may say it's not a problem at all because women are now coming into their own. But I would venture to ask are you seeing how women who get a glint in their eyes she said earlier about their careers. Or use. There's an advocate could organize events from their careers so there wouldn't include in the garage from reaching their children. Your actually in children. What will leave people are married and have children. 100 it is about 40% chance essential that whether it's will be full time involved with the children about 40% chance to come people are involved. In the workplace Olympics after hours in the workplace. And there's about a 20% chance that they'll be part and involved for the church target for the children. Are growing up in so women have to deal with when the children went woman's pregnant and she's married and middle class Serb. She basically has three options option one to work full time option choose should be which which of the children full time. An option trees in some combination of both a father usually generate three different options option one has to work full time. Should choose to work full time entries to work outside or more technically if you two executive so sensitive work. And a broader responsibility. And more overtime and that he's a working class in an attempt to take to Asia trip and one in order to support. This children intervention economic security and mood and into the battered neighborhoods and show that should have been. The pattern that's consistent today but it isn't in your question I think would also in the work week so what can we do so much that we can do. A little itchy to encourage fathers took it to. Boy. TP actually themselves as one of their options interest spirituality is appropriate. Can be what I would call father warrior. Actually fitted jogging on the workplace. He is. He mixture of social life and school to achieve fathering has one possible option for a full time job. And and allow any word in can be have a ball with many women who do one careers. Are they are very recently saying that I if you can get capital and that you can't get capital and questions from Washington and well actually if the woman. She shouldn't has long believed in you know a couple of desires are being full time tackle. The wall they may or may not we're not from home. Particularly on the integration children. And it can get artist. Yeah and part of what we need to intuit. To create a new type as far the warriors where you can certainly help hero. Absolutely and two children well then we create it would we're in relation for women men and children. Wintry woe. Who are who are career oriented secret here and being you know that they will have its father Holmgren and children well. There and the crucial issue as to whether or not this work. In on what that there will be in command who told not earning any money or only earning some money. I'm actually re election that tidbit there which works well. If she doesn't expectant that trip with her chances early to deport. And should be quite miserable for everybody. And show but children were frequently uttered at. Do not in a marriage situation. The mother almost always remained in the Balkan connected with the children and so they detestable world they they are there. Re probably more successfully than any attention to demographic of children. I'm and women who focused on the workplace where their children born. They do better than their male counterpart for war move more quickly to executives and levels that and that male counterparts here. And that's one aspect where men have to take the responsibility to say I'm gonna give up my career. To be a full time father to be a father hero in this particular case. What are there other any other things wrote a social standpoint that we should be stepping back and looking at. This may be how. Public education is structured for example. Yes and just before that in me. Listen make no way shape or form. Our guy is calling you wanna do attempt I think we're a little bit for guys before until the Pew Research Center. And I mean who fully imported. Wouldn't say if they had the option that you would prefer to be full time involved with the children not part time or fully employed. 49% of demand for the they would prefer. To be full time and control what their children. Rather than be working. That would attack that was considered by 49% of young man and and should be something that would be a greater interest for them. When I look at me and some years ago and talked about it in the book and he told me about injuring one man it's I have sorted after I had had been group. And he told me that he had given up in that it would never questioned my instrument groups yeah. He wasn't the biggest hole in your heart. And he had when he opened up and said that the biggest hole and heartless. He shouldn't it was not taking care of my younger son and and losing contact with and intentionally. Giving and getting. Divorce from my life. And that is that the worst thing that ever financial and which so much effort into my business. And I didn't. Focus on my son growing up. And in Connecticut and extra decrying what he said he told me that he started crying and and it and they should what is that about. I could write my new life here in the states. I'm Fred I would she was pregnant and we just found out. Actually having a boy and I'm worried that it would be doing the same thing over and some shall clap in the business. And it shouldn't group you know. Fortunately chew. Quote fortunately. You have my life it's I would be opened shoot. It is they ST what would be by injury and contributing my attention would be that would take off Cheniere. And range in full time. And my new and pulled in and who took the group confronted the intensity cultural Baptist and actually knows what church you didn't agree. And that there in days encouraged me to talk I liked about the spotlight for the job you did go through that. And and he was fearful of having true break hold and contracts to renegotiate everything and yet but yet to attend groups that supported him should go through that. And he did take but it became tried Q history should be silent. And I miss him when he was about a year cheered in the process. And I actually didn't catch on that it was it's a good decision on interest or foreign that the situation life. I finally learned what love really is and I love every minute of it. And at that point in time has come back from the first book tour. And from that and on TV and simply cannot say Capel and can I have your autograph. And try to reach for the guys political or to get an autograph it and in the kind of pretty awkward to me. I'm actually I was wondering it occurred weighty question about it. And I was really didn't hit it. And as the guy actually tried that occurred very rapidly and said. Local news and I can fit and John mentioned in the future and the child is John Lennon. And because I didn't have a TV to watch TV. Like you who it was for our ships. And so and and yet so the point here is sent here to me and who had won the most successful career troubled times. With Cray and everything else and creativity crept into it. And he wished realizing that what she owned. Went a little hand. And that whole picture actually. Let's preventing him from from discovering love. And that when he spent so let's hear it here to temple in. Reaching shore. That he had war I bet that that was what he called the best situation of the life. And true I think it got encouragement. At number one. Couldn't hold that open something honorable football execute to our eyes away from polite gesture. But also the entity caring professions. Of what you're single law and you don't have the option of friction regions involving your father. And a truck in one of the region think that probably get into the ball. Is that ultimately that unique way of parenting are not valued ultra tight mothers are fearful over a thousand. Fearful of teaching in cheerful encouraging bullied to. And girls to get up and yet detonate correctly in south. And show. Part of what we need to do a little lightning a propensity and other fathers. But. In order to get some more involved and I didn't feel valued. Technically mutual encourage sports can prepare themselves for the health protection and critique protection. And particularly for being teachers elementary school teacher and. Voice will not have to go from another critical look there's a link homes that you and female old school it's simply could signal role model. We need to be encouraging words from you I'll learn how to cheer and nurtured their sisters and Brothers. And shall and to witness sympathy and. You know duke it you know your daughter being patient. For the mother. You know. My daughter's took a big sugar control title so maybe it. How is K entry and have a comfortable in my blog on treatment should be duck out in the coastal and that probably enjoyed the process a lot more. And show and I sit tight for. Lee socialization. Thinking oh. What the next generation of police will be able to cap option to date it will not be appropriate for Opel. We feel leader firefighters or police officers that are contractual workers. Part issues that we need to open up other options for. Triple agent fact we opened up other options. Curled. Doctor Warren Farrell. The book is the boy crisis is available at We appreciate you being here in Carolina focus. You are listening to Carolina focus on news talk elevenths in 1993 WPP. 1079 the linked. 1025610. WFANZ. Also available to podcasted WBT dot com I'm your host mark Thomas let you be joining us here once again this morning. And that headline in the Charlotte Observer caught my eye. Recently that Charlotte Mecklenburg schools is the most racially segregated school district in North Carolina according to it and advocacy group. North Carolina justice center's education and law project. Came out with a report. And it said that C a mess is among six large systems. And if he racially dis similarity index the report calculates. It shows that Charlotte Mecklenburg schools would need to reassign 55% of its students. To achieve racial parity across its schools making it by far and I quote by far the most racially segregated district. In the state. And joining us now is the director of the education and law project with the North Carolina just to senator Matt Allen would welcome the Carolina focus Matt. I certainly art project. You're not gonna make a lot of people in Charlotte Mecklenburg very happy when by putting out reports like this. What's the first of all what motivated you to to do this study. And coming give us a thumbnail sketch as to how you reach this conclusion. Surely in big reason why we're looking at the study is because in our research on various education policies the potential to you. Improve student achievement for students. I really ought to be particularly low income students in communities of color. There's been really decades of research showing the benefits of having integrated schools. Going back to avoid back to the ground or board of education decision in 191950s. In the Coleman report that came up 1960. The declared that. Separate schools were inherently unequal and that. School integration why is an effective strategy for improving outcomes for our students and we've seen. A lot there was a lot of progress in racial integration. And socioeconomic integration in that time from the board decision after the 1980s and then as school districts and from bang. Removed from court supervision under desegregation cases a lot of those school district however segregated in Charlotte one of them. And and so we've we've seen sort of a lack of effort to me integrated schools in recent years. In spite of that evidence they're seeing about the positive effect you know you know kind of the bottom of their educational outcomes but also. Produced contacting us. With the criminal justice system. And improve cross racial understanding. A common sense and creating a more prepared workforce. For folks that are gonna have to went into the workforce or network effect people who come from different backgrounds and then lotteries are shelling in the people who attended integrated schools are more prepared to operate in a more diverse workforce today. And I wanna kind of back up for just the second BK is I think you know in in this day and age brown vs vs board of education. Was you know sixty plus years ago. And as far as having integrated schools there is a massive amount of the populace that cannot remember a time between the south. Where there were not integrated schools with that was the case where you basically had two separate school systems. One for whites one for blacks. And I just that may be shocked if some people if they've I've grown up being in here and never really addressed the subject. That much had gone. So I guess what. What is it about the efforts that Charlotte Mecklenburg has been making I mean their words and rulings backing nearly 2000. About busing and so forth and the immigration is gone on. How did under the wheels come off of the school bus if he were. I think a big moment was of that ruling that you are referring to do it 2001. Where. Charlotte effort to integrate the schools quarter were declared unconstitutional and then. This school board had to go back and read science students and a really large percentage of students have their school assignments change in school district boundaries changed. I'm almost about 50% of students up. There is the rapid resegregation during that period and then there you know the Charlie is growing quickly. So there's a lot of factors that are impacting segregation some of them are outside the control of the school district rather than. And a large demographic changes and there hasn't been a lot done and housing contacts to. Encourage. Affordable housing in areas where the higher performing and more affluent schools are located. So there's. It's a tricky issue because they're in the intersection where people choose to live or where they're able to live in and the housing market that we have we have our school assignment policies so. In addition to that earlier court ruling has also been some. Clustering of people in terms of where they live within the county that has exacerbated the segregation in the district in the there have been them. Certain individuals schools and the decisions that are made periodically at that new schools you build things like that that. Haven't given into the socioeconomic racial integration of priority and that is. Exacerbated the problem further in the period in 2001. And we're speaking with Matt Killen would with the North Carolina just to senator Lisa director of the education and law project about the study that showed Charlotte Mecklenburg being the most segregated school in the state. These link to the economic component of this it's not strictly a racial thing. Is the economics of it plays a major major part in this as well doesn't. Yes that we found that written racial segregation increasing. This economic segregation increasing at a much. More rapid rate that does have really important consequences for schools. We have seen and things like me throughout school grades where the schools that received an upgrade there alarmingly schools that are really high concentrations of poverty and they're just. There are a number of challenges with having large numbers low income students in the located on the same school where. Teacher there's higher teacher turnover there's more exposure to childhood trauma. And some more supports are needed for children who experience. Hardships and dramatic experience is at a very young age in terms of meeting counselors therapists and other sports like that. So it really does require a lot of resource is being applied to. To schools that have a lot more in need in the lower income areas and so. It's not necessarily surprised that school grades are correlated that he incomes of populace of those schools that. We found that more integrated schools have. Really substantial benefits in terms of narrowing the racial insisted economic achievement gap between students and no negative outcomes for more affluent white students. So we think it's a positive. Thing did for school district to be thinking about it and for counties to think about in the coming up with that are housing plans to companies. New developments in the location of these schools. And I wouldn't. The affordable housing issue something that we've addressed here on numerous occasions. Carolina focused and it it's something that I'm not sure you know short of actually setting. Rent controls or mandating housing prices. How can you ha how can you have any significant impact on that because housing the housing market is a market driven. Thing and when you have in the case Charlotte Mecklenburg. Over hundred people a day or moving into the area you've got an incredible amount of demand for housing. Yes I think we've we've seen other areas in the country address this problem with things like in Montgomery County Maryland there's something called exclusionary zoning where. When new developments that are created some percentage of them. Should include affordable housing for folks and so. By a that really actor can avoid the problem of having high concentration of poverty in given areas of the county. Eric making acquired in new developments. And that has had a really positive impact on their schools as well worth it it really hit an example or model that's worked really well where. They have much smaller racial socio economic achievement gaps in relief in higher outcomes for Austin and they did prior to adopting an exclusionary zoning policies. I'm there also things you can do about where you where it's been quite affordable housing vouchers are accepted. Sometimes they're limited to only certain portions of the kind of account in in including some of those in some of the more affluent areas that are being developed where. The other thing he can do have more coordination between school officials. And county officials when we're deciding where we're gonna cite these new housing. Development. And build new schools like you wanna be here are some of the new school in new facilities and including an affordable housing component. In this new developments this one way to increase integration without necessarily having to move people around from there currently situated. And we're speaking with Matt Allen would with the North Carolina justice senator director of their education and law project. Two other angles two other issues that I wanted to toss out for you. First of all the question of white flight which is something that we used to hear a lot of back in the sixties and seventies. And also the impact of home schooling are well how do these two factors play into the development of the segregated school system we have today. We didn't get much at the home schooling issues that big of a little tricky there but I think it's a pretty long. Until look at further I think for them play late issue. In terms of school policy it seems as though that's an achievement in. The charter school context where we found. In counties that had more chart they had at least one charters school. That schools were more. Racially segregated than public schools than other schools have. Who we also found that a high percentage of the majority charter schools fall outside the range of the white student enrollment percentage for the rest of the district and so there are schools their curriculums are both them and serve really high percentages of white students and really Epperson boxes and so. Think there are some policies around charter schools can be implemented that would limit that sort of effort spearheaded the desire of people to. India escape from the school system thing and it's a school that is more. It is overwhelmingly one race or another. Could have a lot of these schools. The schools are required respect for increased lunch program or to provide transportation students actually the barrier for a lot of low income families. There is no law of that. Charter schools have to make efforts to achieve demographic parity with the local school districts say that the hatred that's really hard to enforce we'd like to see that. Strengthened so that it. More effort after being made in terms of how charter schools conduct lottery in this in this setting priority for racial and economic integration. Also in terms of how they do either outreach and marketing efforts and making an effort to get those seen lower income areas in the community and minority and community of color in this in this economy. There's certain things you think would really help. That it charter schools become more tools for integration rather than for an increase segregation. Matt Millen would with the North Carolina just to senator director of the education and law project we appreciate you being here in Carolina focus it sounds like we're just really scratching the surface on an issue that used. Pollack gonna be in front of us for the foreseeable future. Let's say I really appreciate that you. I. You are listening to Carolina focus on news talk 1110993. WBT. 1079 the length. 125610. W have been Z and it's also available to podcast at WBT dot com. I'm your host mark Thomas and once again glad to be join us here this morning. And I'm sure everyone is aware of the fact that a president trump has proposed some tariffs on steel and aluminum. To go into effect quite soon and the league. Basis that's been cited for these tariffs is under section 232 of the trade expansion act of 1962. I'm sure we all remember when that got past. But what it does it under certain circumstances that allows the president to impose tariffs based on the recommendation from the US secretary of commerce. If quote an article is being imported into the United States in such qualities or under such circumstances. As to threaten or impair the national security. Unquote. Now this is having ramifications. That far beyond. National security at least I would think based on the fact that the gentleman would speak with next. Is pat Brennan who is the owner founder and brew master at rivermen brewing company. Good morning pat. Morning all I'm greatly blessed I hope you are you've you've started your brewery a few years ago. There's a labor of love and you're saying that these tariffs are gonna have a real negative impact on your business right now should they go into effect as as they're talking about. Dixon and really where. Literature so have a big impact on on the bird business is the vast majority. But our tanks equipment typing and everything is costing Russian and I would say. They must feel that I can throw it shows that it is. Fabricated intention here from from social chat. And and and as far as the aluminum Euro also experiencing some of that as well aren't you. Yeah that's that and that is there's still a lot of momentum whether it's process or roll into cans also cultural. Errors in in China as well so that's that's gonna have an impact on existing business as like myself. And I think it's Austin. Significant impact on. Portion of Perot. Sergio birds truck country. I'm as you start adding insult costs option to serve real cost or expansion. And now you've run the numbers I mean you're you're a businessman I mean you started this thing from scratch you you keep the books I assume or at least keep a very close eye on the and half from the get go what sort of economic impact and an assist to increase your manufacturing costs by aiding any particular percentage that you can guestimate at this point. What were loud and we'll wait and see. Our culture itself but I think. But that complex future expansion it'll. I guess and summer 2032%. To equipment expansion that's also an. That costs on true. I'll awhile so that we got caught some balls that are stainless steel plant some bows shipments and set the league's all time. I'll such that impact as well as. The packaging candles. You know that the vast majority text. Has been some portion or whatever you know actually fabricated in China. The stainless steel is manufactured in China shipped to other countries like Germany and Canada and the United States so that the currency. A real significant impact on all of the pieces and parts that we use actually operator does match. Well and as I said we're talking with pat Brennan who is the owner and founder and brew master of rivermen brewing over in Belmont. This is one area that North Carolina we talk about economic development and growth in jobs. They've microbrewery. And I guess that that's probably not the greatest turn because you're really kind of bigger than a micro and cents. This is really exploded across the state primarily in the but from Charlotte over to Asheville. In this has been a real economic plus for a lot of people and bring in and tremendous amount of business. For suppliers to your industry and and so forth so it's it's gonna slow that growth down in general. It is and that's one of the you know there's an organization that that is just getting in getting its unity that's been around for a couple of years but work. Really you know we just came at the old that's part of the Charlotte independence for association. And you know with that that 48 or so member breweries. Which you know it includes operations like learning more and all the folks that make you know and and really feel. The numbers and Charles market. You know we're we're happy to meet a few months ago stops and note that the job will drop impact. That just so number or number of arteries cabinets this summer right around 500 jobs created. I'll just in this area which is significant and these slow growth that slows down. Hiring top expansion. And that hasn't attacked her and thrown from Serb stations. Quote restore people going out and it all all across the board. Well then we might also add that you do have a restaurant as part of your robbery. And you know as as you've expanded bear you know that's providing more jobs and more business for a restaurant suppliers as well also is it's a real ripple effect. That. If the growth of this particular segment of industry in manufacturing which bring is. It's not gonna have a positive impact long term should these tariffs go through as they are. Yes we're gonna instructions really don't want them to incite. Because you know our power to Camden and just everything that we need we generally use and such is so little respect achievement it. So that that what sort of somehow significant ripple you know throughout. The distances that's enough but that you want to this site actions says that that we have here and you know it will have an impact content. Thanks but the restaurant industry. Maybe less noticeable in big considers what super and that he felt across the board. Pat Brennan with rivermen bring in Belmont we appreciate you being here at Carolina focused bachelorette. Thanks for listening Carolina focus on news talk 1110993. WTT. 179 rolling. 10256 MW have been easy. It's also available as podcasts to double BBT dot com I'm your host mark Thomas and until next time he well.