Dr Mark Tobin

David Chadwick
Sunday, August 5th
Mark Tobin – Career Coach and Author,joins David to discuss the dangers of Social Media!

Transcript - Not for consumer use. Robot overlords only. Will not be accurate.

Hi everyone I'm David Chadwick and just talk 1110993. WVP. Great to have you on the show. Wonderful what have you listen thanks for being faithful listeners in case you don't know this is a faith and values program that tries to intersected different issues. Through the lenses of faith and values it's always a pleasure. Having you folks join me weekly and it's always a pleasure doing the program. While today's one of my favorite guest on the program we had among several times just to talk about. Different things in our culture and he is a person of faith himself so we of course will take. This subject through the lenses of faith and values but I want you all to understand the subject first. What I wanna talk about today is the dangers of social media and now I think it's contributing to a narcissistic culture where people think. This world is all about me and by the way if you don't note it's not about use it's about. The one who created Jews so my guest is mark Tobey and he is a trained clinical psychologist but also a sports psychologist that's his moniker if you will meets with folks who are successful sports celebrities all over the world will never tell me who I guess you can't do that Kenya more confidentially but it's great having you want to show again thanks thing that I always happy to be here. Well let's talk about this subject on. The whole social media phenomenon and how gay and I think it contributes to this narcissistic culture would you believe that true as well. Oh absolutely I I think children are raised to be self promoters from very early age and then unfortunately that. Keeps going throughout their adult Clinton and their personal and their professional lives. So the FaceBook pose the instant Graham post it's all about recognition and it's all about me and it's it's very self centered and and I think has some damaging effects have. Wondered because I'm a little older and I was raised in an era where. The only people who got trophies were the people who really succeeded they were the top of the heap and anybody who didn't get a trophy does kinda tough that's the way our society works. Also this idea of a snowflake culture where everybody's just so unique and so special which they are uniquely created in the eyes of god. But on the other hand that tends to promote to an idea that my kid my child is such a snowflake Sheehy is so different from the rest of the world. They are so special I think that only contributes to the mindset op narcissistic. I would agree that I think there's there's there's somewhat of a school of hard knocks that's healthy for people to endure and for people to go through because it builds character and builds perseverance. And in a lot of parenting and sports and otherwise these days prevents children from experiencing the natural consequences of things that they do poorly and things they do well. They want to interfere with the natural cycle of if you did poorly there's going to be a consequence and you figure out why and you learn and you get better and you improve and that's how much at all approach life. Is there truth the competition. Really is a good thing for kids or it may be we've gone too far over the top your opinion on that. I think competition is a good thing at the right age I definitely agree and at the earliest stages sport should not be about competition should be about socialization and should be about. I'm developing hand eye coordination developing teamwork and things like that but you know life is a competitive sport at some point you're gonna have to realize. The alike that are not that her reality I have a friend of mine who has a daughter who swims and of course my son swims at pretty high level right now but she was like. Eight years old nine years old and she went all the meats and for any parent out there who's done to swim meet world it is Vieri and tents. And his daughter kept jumping in the pool and doing pretty well but never really finishing first or second so finally the parent ask one day you know worked spending a lot of time and money on you. Don't don't you think you ought to be finishing first or at least second some. And she looked into says it would dad. What are these weekends call and he said. A swim meet she said yeah swim meet I'm with my friends that's all I really care about dad and I think that's the point you're making they just wanna be socialize. It's absolutely and there's a very damaging effects when you give that message to children and and that messages. It's about performance and your worse therefore becomes tied to your performance which puts more pressure on the performance which usually results in worst performance. So apparent that gives that message to their child not only is giving them the wrong message about competition there also giving them the wrong message about self forced. So at what age do you think healthy competition can kick in and it can be used as a great tool to parent well. You know we we really don't have any definitive research on that in terms of any specific age but I would say. Once you get past the awkwardness of the young view for example when you go watch soccer four year old GC a pack of people follow the ball hurt itself heard I think there's there's no way saying there's nobody on the on the opposite sideline and and passing. So so once you seat that kind of specialist nation and that kind of skilled developing that's when things become a little bit competitive and and you of course she go onto the travel squads and and some parents and their whole lives taking their children to various now weekend activities on the travel squad. So somewhere in that timeframe where it goes from specialists nation of a sport verses. Participating in large number of different sports you're gonna have to face. I was with another friend of mine this week who has us kids and soccer travel sports. And he said you know what at the end indymac has probably get us some money for a scholarship but when a look at how much I've spent to give him there I'm not sure stock will be awash. It's not a very good investment parents out there and I can say to you usually for one who's been on the tour if you will that only 2% of kids in high school. Get an athletic scholarship only 2% keep that in mind listeners with let's talk about. The sneer compare via social media when we come back I'm David Chadwick we will be right back. Hi everyone I'm David Chadwick in this news talk 111099. WBP welcome back the show. A with mark Tobin in studio with me he's a Ph.D. Trained as a clinical psychologist now has an emphasis on sports psychology in his spratt practice he's also an executive coach. And early coaches some of the most known athletes throughout the world mark great to have you on the show again and talked today about. The narcissus and that exists in our culture were seeing it even at the earliest ages of kids and team sports with kids. Certainly permeates the larger culture as well. And I want to take a moment and talk more specifically. About social media I'm we have all of these different avenues of social. Interaction with people instead Graham Twitter or whatever it might be. And I believe all my heart that. It causes people to compare themselves. With other people. And that can only lead to one of two things both of which are bad either I'm pride mobile calls my life is better than yours or. I'm jealous because my life is not as good as your worst. And there's always danger and comparing my insides. With somebody else's outside we don't know what's really going on in their life for in their hearts. In this comparing stuff it is just deadly and so many different ways talk about that please. It's a phenomenon that we've known about some time for some time in psychology called social comparison. So if you are comparing yourself to others it needed to be on any attribute could be on intelligence that could be on looks it could be on. Career could be on money could be on your possessions your always gonna find somebody that's better at than you at something so if you look long enough you're going to find someone who you don't measure up against. Now the danger comes in and as we are talking about the previous segment when you think about self worse if your self worth or your self esteem is based on how you stack up to others. It's only a matter of time before you're going to be disappointed. Inevitable it has to happen because there's always somebody better and she just says yes absolutely and and so what needs to happen yourself worse needs to be based on who you are as a person. Your character your integrity your values what kind of a friend in my what kind of a brother LaMont what kind of a partner in my. How have I made the world a better place in which to live absolutely. And and when you have that intact it's fine to compete everybody wants to be successful that's OK but then you do not need to success in order to feel good about yourself that is the key. Nothing wrong with going to be successful nothing wrong with being successful if you're doing it for the right reasons and that is. I want to make the most of my god given abilities and talents for my good in the good of the world while I'm here on the served. And successful follow but if you need success in order to feel good about yourself. You or any maybe a variant help. Place like just used the illustration that comparing my insides with somebody else's outside can only bring about two things in both of them are bad I find it interesting. That both of them jealousy and pride are two of the seven deadly sins of the church and they're called deadly for a reason they can really kill. The eternal soul like nothing else and the church over centuries identified these particular seven evils as the big east. They can really capture your heart and cause you to fall so when we're looking at jealousy or pride. In the comparing idea that really does calls us to pause and say these things really healthy shouldn't. Yeah absolutely and and so we do if we take that and the research has been done on motivation there there are two states primarily. That motivate people who compete or drive for success one of those his ego and wanna and the others mastery. So some people that compete have to beat other people in order to feel good about themselves and they are ego oriented individuals and competition. Those are the people you read about that are trashing locker rooms from their team loses or. Are unhappy when they don't give enough points or when they don't get enough recognition they don't get the ball thrown to them often enough those those are ego oriented and they're the guys behind the scenes that demand a trade because they don't think they're getting what they want on this team to get to another team where they think they can better showcase their talent absolutely happens in business to. I'm so ego oriented individuals and businesses never enough why do these very famous people go to jail for running their companies when they were already eaten multi millionaires because it's never enough that you are motivated by ego. Now the second orientation is a mass street orientation. And people that are there are motivated by a mastery they wanna win and they wanna be successful they'd like to compete. But their motivation is to master their craft they want to be as good as they can be whether it's in their business pursuits in their personal pursuits and their athletic pursuits. And then therefore they will win more often than other people but the motivation is not to be better than you. The motivation is to be my personal best to mastermind craft and that's a huge difference. Since the first person would be driven by the lie that I was creative form force more. That I just need more and more and more there's of verse in the Bible a parable actually Luke fourteen about the man who. One more and more Barton syndicate building the more and more more and more until. Building the last when he died in he heard from god your soul is required to view tonight and he never did anything to develop his eternal soul which is always. Wanted more and I just say to people all the time you were created for more than more. You know you just worry and that's the first group you're talking about it but the second group you're saying that are just competing against themselves and just trying to be the best they can be. With their god given talents. Then they have some sense of peace and security of their heart. Absolutely and and do whatever we talk about David we always come back to this concept the process first is out come tumbling near you and I've had this on the show almost every show you've been on the right engine deal so I was so focused on the process and let the outcomes take care of themselves if you get that wrong and you focus on the outcomes and you put too much pressure on them. Then an athletic she will choke them because you're putting too much pressure on the ultimate outcome verses focusing on the skill. That you need to perfect in order to compete that your highest level. And in business most likely if if if you get that backwards and your only focus on the outcomes a lot of people do things unethical in order to achieve. And because goals defined themselves the bottom line makes them feel whether they're successful or not. Yeah absolutely there's nothing wrong with goals and goals are very helpful in terms of motivation but but they need to be goals that are grounded. In in in some form of of integrity not just to make more money than the next person not just to. Say that I'm better than. But a goal it's going to help me motivate myself to be my best nothing wrong with that or that. Pride idea which is compared to add its base absolutely war. On is the sand above all sends up the seven deadly sins of the church talks about that's number one. Some have suggested CS Lewis particularly is a wonderful all third written so many books about christianity. He said prides what caused the double to be the double. On that he was created Lucifer the Angel of light and who was one of the worship leaders in heaven. He led the rebellion because he was envious of the position of Jesus in heaven and he took 13 of the angels with him because he was so. Permeated with pride so. Pickled with that disease called pride and in reality what he did was he brought destruction to this world. But calls of his pride says talks are more just again about the danger of pride in a person's heart and how it is seeping into our culture war for. You know absolutely so let's take a look at what happens. As you become more and more successful as you become more and more successful Weathers and business from its border whatever endeavor could be performing arts even for example. You get treated differently people recognize she you get nice things guess what you don't have to make a reservation in the restaurant anymore and leaving it comps sometimes not paying for your meal. Well that can cause pride that you can think that you deserve them or you're worthy of that in reality you're not really you know better than other person who had to make a reservation restaurant. But you've been successful. And if you don't have people around you who will keep you grounded than that pride can creep into. So the best leaders that I worked out worked with what I call confidently humble they have confidence humility. You have to be confident in order to perform at very high levels but that has to be grounded in a basis of humility. You know something along the lines of wow I'm really fortunate to be here I've worked hard but I'm fortunate. And from a faith perspective that everything I have as a gift from god I recognize that so therefore I accomplish something it's only because the gift god gave me I may have worked hard to use those gifts and succeed but alternately at its core. I receive those gifts as gifts from the creep toward their four I should live every day. Graciously humbled to the one who gave me everything. Absolutely because if you realize where your gifts come from and that will keep you humble if you think that they came from yourself. Then you're in trouble in Thanksgiving becomes the attitude that should be most prevalent in the most successful people don't you think absolutely. That's where the humility comes in thanks and gratitude and humility that they're they're synonymous that their night. Twin sisters if you will their right their together in the Bible also says. Give thanks to god and all things the calls. He even when something goes wrong you're thinking god because he somehow teaching a lesson. Somehow working it for good so you thank him for an amazingly in the failure dosing rip your soul and make you feel if they. You know this is going to be a foreign concept to many people but when you get. Far enough along that path that you're talking about David the most enlightened people in the world will actually. When they encountered difficulty they're they're thankful. Rather than them the opposite what to most people do when they encountered difficult debate moan and complain pour me why's this happening all those kinds of things. But if you see it as an opportunity to learn and grow and persevere. You can actually learn to welcome adversity doesn't make it any more fun when you're going through it but you can see on the other side of what is likely to happen you don't know the specific cancer. But if your faith is in the right place you know that there will be an answer. Great lessons come through failure of learn much more through my failure than I had my successes there's a verse of the Bible clippings to nineteen assessed. Do everything without grumbling or complaining and last time I checked the word everything means everything are complaining is not looked upon fondly by god in fact the and Hebrew testament to Jewish testament when that Israel like start complaining got said that's it done. Forty years lapping around the wilderness and new group's gonna come into the promised land you complainer who are expressing on belief just aren't going to have the privilege of the promised land. And for the golfers out there Bobby Jones who is the greatest amateur golfer ever compare phrase the quote set and never learned anything from the times that I won I learned the most from the drubbing as I receive. And and I love the quote by Arnold Palmer which when I use so many times he said the most important shot in golf is the next one. A because you can't do anything to change the past the past is past you can drive your life score looking at the rear view mere constantly. You gotta keep looking forward and you learn from that Michelle I don't jamarcus. But first let's at all. Absolutely and and the predict the caveat that I would put on that is you have to learn your lessons from failure before you move forward so many people can say what we where I'm not gonna look back on luck and remember that we need to move forward. That's fine but learn your lessons don't just forget about. Doctor mark Tobin is with me were talking about how to handle this narcissistic culture as social media all the things that are contributing to it in our culture. And mark we come back let's talk about those two are so successful then don't have any longer and depression. They enter into I'm David Chadwick will be right back. Yeah. Hi everyone I'm David Chadwick and this is news talk 1110993. W VT welcome back to the program. If you'd like to hear that showed in its entirety good WBT dot com scroll down of the weekend shows look for the David Chadwick show. And you can hear the podcast cast from beginning to in with mark Tobin who is a Ph.D. sports psychologist. He is on. An executive coach he meets with athletes and others all around the world try to help them happy. Performance in their lives in markets such a pleasure having you on the show thanks again for your time we're talking about. This culture in which we live so narcissistic. A sort of self driven in so many ways beginning and sadly the earliest ages now and kids growing up comparing themselves with other people how social media aggravates and exacerbates the problem because always comparing yourself but other people. And we note that win a lot of these successful athletes really do reach peak performance. That when they retire they fall into. Deep depressions some weeks ago we had on the show Lauren Purdue who won a gold medal in the 2012 games in London. And she talked about how at the end of it all and she had to retire because of a bad back she fell into this. Deep depression she's not the only one in swimming. I'm Allison Schmitt same story Michael Phelps fell into a deep depression as did Ryan locked the after the 2016 Rio fiasco work. He was then taken away from swimming by the authorities for year for all that happened in Rio so I'll talk to you about. This whole thing win not just athletes but people seem to reach the pinnacle. And it's like once they get there it's a subtle quiet and immediately they fall into some kind of depression talk about that week. I've seen a lot of athletes and executive side experience that over the years David it's a very real phenomenon. And at the root of it one what happens is that over time and the occupation becomes their identity. It's not just a way that they make their living it's who they York. So if you think about the athlete they've been training intensely since they were young children by the time they make it to the professional ranks. Well that's holding you know was so let's say swimming for example I'm not just a swimmer that he has my complete identity it's not just what I do. To earn a living or to have access to reach the Olympics or whatever the case may be. So what happens is when that's taken away from someone and they don't have the rest of themselves developed they don't know what to do you don't have anything to replace that with. So in business you see that a lot with people who who are founders of companies that start out very entrepreneurial. The company does very well gets bigger and bigger and bigger and out paces the skills of the talents of of the founder. And the founder can't let go because that company is their identity. So therefore they don't trained successors because sort of unconsciously they don't want a successor. Because they have a successor than that means they have to retire and their identity is wants what happens awful lot. So so the message the areas is as you are becoming more and more successful. Make sure that the rest of your life is getting enough attention and that job or that recognition of that success is not the coming your identity. So the question really is who Emma. And if you answer that question by I am a CE. A corporation I am a professional athlete who's accomplished whatever. You would waive the red flag as what I and say be careful because that identity can be taken away from you so quickly and when you don't have that does your life still have meaning so. When you are asked that question who am I. You should not answer Imus CEO and professional athlete you really should answer from a faith and values perspective I'm I'm a child of god. I'm loved by god he created me he gave me all the gifts I have. My identity is found in my relationship with Hammond who he created me to be not in what I do. Absolutely and and then you can you can use your talents wisely and you can use them generously and you can use them to help other people not just yourself. You're in a dangerous dangerous trap if you say I am a CEO or I am a professional athlete. And you start thinking that way and you don't think about who wins that hands. And and it will land on it there's there's a saying no matter how successful York there's a saying in the locker rooms in professional sports you have to start preparing for retirement the very first immediately what little isn't it true in the NFL for example that other average a career is three years it's right around that in two point 73 point oh depending on the study and a number of these guys who sign these huge contracts within some years large percentage of them are bankrupt did not hear that route lightly as well unfortunately that does happen it's a complicated phenomenon there's lots of reasons for but it definitely does there's. There's a show notably there was an ease sixty or one of the 360s on ESPN called broke and if you wanna look at that there are some very famous names and actually experience that. It's it's an eye opener for a lot of people. But again goes back again to. We're sure identity who our use. And I use this illustration several times so when I've preached. Originally when the Christian church came on the scene in the message of the gospel about how much god loves you and forgive human Jesus in your identity is now found as a child of god and nothing else. People's salt work as a vocation Nikkei from the Latin word folks voice in Minot calling from God's hopes of people would. Do whatever they did in their work they would see it as a calling of god they believed that. Where ever they were they were there because got a call them to be there and if god one of them some other place they beat some other place. I think Martin Luther King seized upon that idea later when he said he if you are a street sweeper beat. The best street sweeper in the world for the glory of god but then I think in the industrial revolution happened in America particularly and we formed assembly lines people started putting. Pieces on a product that they never even saw the end product and so. What changed watch even on the forms on the people had to fill out there was no longer the term vocation meaning they're calling from god that the term. Occupation. At some point 157 years ago we saw work as something that simply occupy our time. From 89 to 56. Until we can get to the weekend and we could have time to do we really wanted to do and in that people look at work now as drudgery. And I think many try to find their identity into their work because it's where they spend. Most of their time in the thoughts on that. I did sets sets a very interesting observation I've found over the years that people can be happy with with one of two approaches to work some people absolutely have to love what they do you. And they have to feel that they're doing that every minute that they're involved in their profession that's why they choose that profession other people see it as a means to an end I do this suck and put food on the table so that I can feed my family. And and that's that's why go to work. And either one of those things are okay here's the caviar if you are one of those people that pastors that feel like. You are so driven and so enjoy what you do typically those are professions that aren't as lucrative as some other professions those. Might be things like being a teacher for example one of the the most noble professions we have to make a lot of money tactful right absolutely don't make a lot of money that many teachers that they live to T state they get so much enjoyment out of it. Now events and and so therefore they're there for filled and they have purpose. Now the the other type of individual that says you know it's a means to an end that's OK but then you have to have passion and purpose outside of your job. In your family for example. What you do for the community you have to find meaning and purpose somewhere else she can be happy either way. But the people that are are are really in trouble and at risk are the ones that my job as a means to an end and I don't have that passion that purpose anywhere else. I would add one other thing just from my experience with working with people and talking with people through the years. Is look at your job as a mission field in I oftentimes joke with people where your mission field is between your feet wherever you are. As long as there are people in the world you have the opportunity to fulfill what god has called you to do it Nestle love him with all your heart and love your neighbor. As you do yourself so if you're. In a workplace where there are other people you have a chance to love them to put up your spiritual antenna real high when you go into the workplace. And listen to god speak to you in that person next you might need a special touch might need a prayer for the day. Might need a word of encouragement whatever it might be you had a chance to be God's represented his ambassador. To that workplace and suddenly work takes on. A new focus no longer is it drudgery something I've got to go and do every day it's a place I can be an ambassador for Jesus and Phil somebody else up with his love who may need that special touch today. OK so here's where you're gonna correct me if I'm gonna go to scripture and you can give me the exact quote this won't won't be exact but hopefully I would order issued vikings. FF FF FF I work willingly or whatever you do as though you're working for god rather than for me cautions 323. It it's a great person is very versed and I was thinking up when I made my little diatribe a couple of few seconds ago can you imagine what work would be like if everybody took that approach that I'm God's represented here in this workplace. I'm to work for god he's my boss and so I'm going to do well excellently for his glory but I'm also going to be an instrument off help. Hope compassion. Love to all those around me now let's take that full circle to where we started on the programs social comparison. Is that your motivation and you don't really care what other people think about you do you usually don't and at that point. People's opinions don't greatly matter and some people are caught in the quagmire of the addiction of other people's opinions absolutely because of all the approval addicts. Sure sure in out of go back to social comparison your always gonna end up short at some point. Now don't get me wrong you have to satisfy and please your boss or you're not gonna remain employed but if you were if your priorities are in the right. Place then the one that you are serving. Is upstairs correct and the person who is next door will be very pleased. And you'll I think. It's have a work ethic that your balls will notice because you're working for god and not for man. And I think you'll be first in line for the promotions and the bonuses because of the excellence of the work that you're producing. Sounds a lot like process vs out completed and a backpack that we always go back to that. And mark we need to take a break and when we come back. I wanna talk about has endorses is encrypt and a leadership in America I think a lot of examples of that that I think people would love to hear your opinion now. My guess is doctor Moore Tobin he is an executive coach Ph.D. sports psychologist just a great guy great friend I'm David Chadwick will be. Right back. Hi everyone I'm David Chadwick is new to talk 11109 united three WPP. Welcome back to the program now eighteen years and running it hardly seems possible that I mean doing this this long but it's been a blast. Thank you listeners for joining me on a weekly basis. Doctor mark Tobin is in studio with me today he's an executive coach at Ph.D. sports psychologist works with. A lot of athletes all over the world as an executive coach and mark always want have you on the program so stimulating to talk about our culture and what you sees going on. How we've been talking some in the program about narcissus them I think that comes from an old Greek story of a guy named narcissus too was in the water and bowed. And he looked over the side saw his reflection and a water was so overcome with his beauty and everything he kept leaning over closer and closer to get. A better sense of his reflection eventually he fell in the water and drowned that that narcissus them. His self ego his self admiration caused him to die. On so narcissism and is just basically pride it's self inflation it's the world revolves around the is that the best description. Absolutely hated it it really is an inflated sense of self esteem and and other people are here to serve media I want night I get nothing but the best I deserve nothing but the best. People that are that are high on narcissism find that other people around them are disposable me treat them that way. So when people use people for your glory not serve people for God's glory right an end as soon as they failed to acknowledge you're about specialness warrior privileged than their gone from the narcissism life because they have no or use for them. So when you see things like high turnover in the workplace and you see. Departments. Or leaders that that typically do not inspire loyalty a lot of times the reason is narcissism. Now that's so interesting let's shift gears a little bit and move toward narcissus and among leaders in America particularly. I think many people would. Paulus and maybe even look at our president and wonder he has some narcissistic tendencies at least other people that we know in leadership talk about how. Narcissism and may be becoming more and more prevalent among leaders in our culture. Well I think it is an and it has to do with the trappings of success I believe us as we talked about earlier you become more and more successful and you start receiving more and more privileged EU unconsciously believe that you deserve it for the chief earned it. And that's the way that it should be and that's really starting in the cycle. How whenever somebody blows up and and does something that. That hits the headlines. If you look behind the scenes there's been a process over the years of this building and building and in middle suddenly happen. Now you don't wake up and become an arson system overnight. Right it's it's a developmental process where you don't have the people around you that are are grounded and we'll tell you like it is. And you keep getting treated in more and more special ways and virtually everyone who has blown up. As you will inevitably do if that is your developmental cycle has said I didn't even realize it but I thought I was special and. And that special ms. then causes them to do things that no. Sane person would normally do just because it is so off the top and so out of the norm for someone regularly to do. And if we look at professions like entertainment and things like that where a lot of this is very rampant. They're actually rewarded somewhat for that narcissism gaming to think about the the level of self confidence and must take to get in front of a group of 25000. People and play an instrument for example com and and that can become intoxicating hand and again at the cycle is started. Why don't wanna bash our president you know I wanna pray for him that's what the scripture tells me to do. But yet you look at so many things he's done with Twitter etc. Where he's just not told the truth is that a part of a narcissistic personality somebody who thinks they can get away with inflating facts and really not it's odd. Directly saying what is true. Well in general narcissism don't have much need for the truth because it doesn't serve them. If the truth serves them then they're fine even the truth but if it does on their fine going another direction because again the goal or for the purpose not the focus of an narcissus is to inflate the themselves. By any means necessary. And I wanna make clear that we've had other presidents in our history that have shown narcissistic tendencies as well maybe you can't. Get to that level of leadership without some form of narcissism is that true. You know there's some interesting research out there by Jim Collins and then and many people who follow business will recognize him as the author of built the built the last and a degrade some very famous business books. And so we think back those of us that are old enough to remember the Lee Iacocca era of CEOs there was this assumption that you have to have this big personality this this high level of charisma. In order to effectively lead and what Collins found when he researched very successful leaders was actually somewhat the opposite he found that many of them were introvert. Many of them did not have this this this big personality and fill the room and came in but they were persistent they were tenacious problem in and those qualities. Were what made them success. Humility more than anything else if I remember correctly after I read his book yes funny I have big. Speaking ministry Wright speak to a lot of people but if you. Cut me open and asked me what would you like to do on Friday night I would not choose to be with a large number of people lined up the room. I choose to be alone with Maryland and watch a nice movie at home and just enjoy that time with her or with my kids in a family environment are really don't seek that so. I hope that's a good quality that I have as a leader market just real quickly we only have a few minutes lap I don't wanna ask this question. The Bible talks a lot about ambition and selfish ambition. It seems to suggest that ambition has done for the glory of god is quite acceptable. It says that selfish ambition is the real issue that people need to be aware off talk about that. Well it comes on the question of who were you working for. Back to that cautions 323 for X if you're working for yourself that's selfish ambition. And so their there's nothing wrong with wanting to be successful if you're doing it for the right reasons and that is again we go back to the mastery orientation have been given some gifts that. Were were exactly that they were gifts and now it's my job to maximize them. And I would like to be successful like him when I'm doing and his songs and it for the right reasons and ambition is fine. We're back to that one word that I love so much that I think defines the uniqueness of the Christian faith at least and that's grace. Yeah grace means that everything I have as a gift. And grace means that I've not earned it it is given to me by the hand of a loving father in heaven. And when I begin to understand grace my whole life changes. I don't live for a performance based mentality to recede glory from this world. I'd just give Thanksgiving to god is giving me everything and I live for him and do for him so that he receives all the glory and I keep. Point being Yemen any accolade I get I simply smell and say thank you lord and and give it to him because I know it all came from. You know that kind of mentality. Virtually eliminates a lot of anxiety and depression and fear and all those negative emotions if you can adopt that perspective what do you have to worry about when you go to war. And back to what you said earlier if you have a failure or a setback or your. Overlooked for a promotional whatever you just sit Mbenga will god controls my life so he must not one that thank you lord I appreciate the fact he may be protected me from something to. The only way that you can avoid failure in life is so not put your self in the arena at the highest level of which you're capable. So if you consistently. Go in says it took to workers force or whatever the competitive environment may be at a level that is so much lower than your skills whomever faith. But if you go into the arena at the highest level that you can and you're competing against people who are very equally matched to yourself you're not always going to come out. On the win lenient and that's that's understandable. Well then rejection becomes got protection or may be read directions that you thank him for it. In humility because of his grace mark thanks for being with me today we have five seconds one last fall for everybody oh absolutely just do whatever you do for the right reasons and and let the outcomes take care of themselves and mark Tobin has been great having you on the show today thanks for the reminders. Grace mercy kindness focusing on god and not the outcomes because when we do we can get ourselves in great trouble. And everybody if I can remind you to do these two things as we in the program I remind you every week to do two things they love god. With all your heart soul mind and Mike and love your neighbor as yourself if you'll do those two things you have a lifetime's worth of work to do and they beat Chad we'll talk with you all. Next week.